Episode 10

full
Published on:

26th Feb 2025

Trading Talk: Cricket Card Chronicles with Dr Omar Khokhar

In this episode of PSP, host Nii Wallace-Bruce discusses the intense cricket rivalry between India and Pakistan, focusing on their recent match at the 2025 Champions Trophy, where India successfully chased down Pakistan's score of 241 runs [0:18]. Joined by guest Dr. Omar Khokhar from Sportsnection, they delve into Pakistan's performance and the need for more aggressive and innovative play styles [1:07]. The conversation transitions to the historical context of Pakistani cricket and the revival of major cricket tournaments in Pakistan after 30 years [3:53].

They then explore the development and potential of cricket trading cards, a project that connects past legends and current players [5:01], and discuss the growing interest in physical collectibles over digital ones [9:32]. The episode concludes with a discussion on the future of cricket tournaments, advocating for more triangular and quadrangular series to maintain viewer interest [16:33].

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Opening and closing music courtesy of Jeremiah Alves - "Evermore".

Transcript
Speaker:

Hello, my name is Ne Wallace Bruce.

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I'm your host of PSP for today,

and we are talking cricket.

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We're talking the biggest

rivalry in sports.

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India versus Pakistan

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this rivalry has caused

diplomatic tension.

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It's more than cricket

when these two teams.

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Now, , to get you caught up, Pakistan

did score 241 runs in their 50 overs.

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They all bowled out, and India

ended up chasing down the total

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for the loss of only 4 wickets.

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They scored 244 runs from 42 and a

half overs, so they won the game.

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They're close to the knockout rounds,

while Pakistan are facing an early exit.

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But it's an early exit from a

tournament they are hosting.

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They haven't hosted major

cricket for 30 years.

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It was 1996 was the last time we saw

major tournament cricket in Pakistan.

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So there's progress in some aspects

off the field, but still work to

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be done for Pakistan to get back

to the glory days of the:

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We're going to be talking about some

of those plays from that era, but

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to get you started, we're going to

talk a little bit about what went

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wrong for Pakistan in the tournament.

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here it is.

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Myself and Dr.

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Omar Kokafa's Force In Action.

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Enjoy.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Omar,

let's go into the game.

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Let's consider this therapy for you.

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Pakistan , they didn't have the

best start, but what did you see

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from their top order batting wise?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: I think Pakistan batting,

we just have not moved into:

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The strike rate and strike rate to

your viewers means, how many runs

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are you scoring per ball and you've

got to score more aggressively.

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You gotta score faster.

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You've got to be more, industrious

with your shot selection and

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you just don't see those things.

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Then today's batting, for example, just

that second phase of the game where

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they really just blocked and we're

going at three or four runs per over.

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They weren't really able

to recover from that.

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They did have a nice

foundation at 150 for two.

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And there's a hope that maybe

you can double your 30 over

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score and get to 280 odd.

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But when you kept losing wickets, you

got to 240, which was, 40 runs short,

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especially with a batting lineup like

India that can chase anything down.

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with Pakistan batting, we haven't

caught up with the rest of the world

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in terms of innovation and aggression.

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those are the two things Pakistan

needs to look at in the future.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Yeah, I

would say that the score of

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241 is definitely a throwback.

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It's a score that would have seen

20, 25 years ago in one day career.

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as you said, the infiltration of IPL

and T20 cricket has made 50 over cricket

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a lot more fast paced, the strike is

turning over quicker, and the teams that

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have embraced 2020 cricket are seeing the

benefits in the longer form of the game

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I wonder, do you think we'll see more

Pakistan players playing:

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Do you think they'll get

more of that opportunity?

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I know there's some restrictions.

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We don't have to get into that.

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But, what do you see for the future

in terms of the way Pakistan plays?

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Can you see that changing down the line?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: I think Pakistan

players are highly coveted on

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the T20 circuit around the globe

in all the different leagues.

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I think because, the tracks in Pakistan

are so flat and don't really help

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the bowler, the problem is that when

you come up against good competition

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or a pitch that may not be helping

you very much, you get found out.

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And that's what happens when we

have the Pakistan Super League,

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which is a great league, one of

the best quality leagues there is.

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But, if you're used to playing on those

tracks, then you go to a different pitch.

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You get found out for technique.

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We saw that a couple

times today against spin.

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We had Kuldeep Yadav

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and once The spinners bog you down,

it impacts the rest of the game.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Yeah, it's almost

like it's very hard to get out of that,

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you can see the balls drying up, and

you're running out of opportunities,

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you have to signal your intent

early as a team, batting first, one

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thing Hanson signaled early is a

release of cards that's coming out.

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We're going to talk about that

later on, but it's going to

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continue with the Champions Trophy.

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It is a landmark event.

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it's the first major cricket tournament

in Pakistan in at least 30 years.

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thinking back to the 1996,

tournament held there.

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I'm aging myself a bit.

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Dr.

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Omar, Was that?

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The peak of Pakistani cricket, I'm

thinking of Shahab Akhtar, Waqar

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Yunus, Inzamamul Haq, Yohan, Was that

the golden age of Pakistan cricket?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: I think so.

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in 1992 they won the whole enchilada.

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They won the World Cup in 1996.

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There were co-hosts of the

World Cup and they had a great

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run until the quarter final.

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people don't remember is that

they had a great:

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They made it to the final and

they were actually tip to FA

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Beat Australia in that final.

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That was the highlight years

where you had was seeing AKA show.

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Seclan, Amr Sohail, Saeed

Anwar, Inzoumah Mulhaq, Ah, the

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batting just Shai the Frithi.

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Just man to man.

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Cricket's a religion there, so you

have to invest and make sure that

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you are always on par with the best.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: You gotta

always be innovating and

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finding different ways to win.

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That's how you stay at the top of your

game, and in line with your competitors.

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You're listening to PSP with Nii

Wallace Bruce, and our guest, Dr.

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Irma Koka from Sports Connection.

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We've been talking about the Men's 2025

Champions Trophy in Pakistan and Dubai.

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And also, we want to talk about a new

development from Sports Connection.

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They have a new release

of cards coming up.

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It came out this week and in line

with the Champions Trophy tournament

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We're going to see Some cards

from yesteryear, Classic cards.

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otherwise known as the

All Stars of Cricket.

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the first series is now

Available in Dubai, the U.

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S.,

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and other countries where you can

get top quality cricketing cards.

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Dr.

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Romar, do you want to

take us through that?

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this

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Dr Omar Kokhar: has been a labor of love

that started off between me and my kid.

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Actually, I was in Melbourne

for the, T20 World years ago.

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And when I was FaceTiming him, like

any dad does, I said, Hey, buddy,

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what do you want, from Australia?

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And we collect baseball

basketball football cards,

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he asked for cricket cards.

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He wanted some Bob Freedie cards.

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And I looked, and I couldn't find any,

so it got me thinking I'm a collector.

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I spend enough money on cards.

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with cricket, there's not a whole lot

that led to me looking into my network

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from high school and university.

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thankfully, as it were, we weren't

too far, removed from some of these

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legends that I described from the 1990s.

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And so we came out with our initial Set

called Legends of Cricket Pakistan edition

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last year sold out on card autographs.

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We got graded by PSA,

ebay, the whole thing.

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And so we've just taken a

step further from there.

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Now we've gone global.

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We've got players from South Africa,

Australia, India, the UK, West Indies.

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And to me, I see it as something

that can connect the legends.

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To current state, and I think it's a way

for legends to celebrate what they've

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given to cricket and how they've moved

the game forward we've got a range of

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talent in our roster and it's great for

kids now to know who the heroes were.

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The way I see it is,

it's almost like a Dr J.

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Michael Jordan.

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type of thing where everyone knows

LeBron James now, but not Julius Erving.

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they've heard of Jordan, but how

much have they seen of him, right?

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And I think this is a great way to

bring people together and celebrate

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the history of cricket and also promote

a potential hobby where, you know,

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trading cards and memorabilia is just

growing exponentially, as it will

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over the next five odd years and What

people want now is the authenticity.

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They want something where, the

player touched this card or signed

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off on this card or held this bat.

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we're trying not just to create a product,

but also to create the connection.

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And that's really how the

company name also came forth.

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we're excited about this product.

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the breadth of the players we've included

and we've got other products coming up

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the quality Is, something not seen in the

trading card space in terms of cricket.

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that's what I've tried

to create with my team.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Yes,

you've gone far and wide.

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players representing India, West Indies.

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Pakistan, Australia,

England, and South Africa.

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did you have to go out

to each of these places?

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How were you able to conduct

the logistics of, meeting the

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players, if you don't mind?

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It's

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Dr Omar Kokhar: a mixed bag.

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cricket is growing in the United

States, and so a lot of these

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folks are coming stateside.

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and so a trip to New York or Dallas is

simpler to meet them and introduce them

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to the concept and get things done in some

cases, such as Australia or South Africa,

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we created a DHL and FedEx account.

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that's how we get things back and forth.

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we have representatives there

to authenticate the signings.

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it's been a fun experience.

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it's really challenged parts of

the brain as a full time practicing

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gastroenterologist, parts of my

brain get, stressed by this work.

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I'm hoping that's a good thing.

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Hopefully it'll stave off early dementia.

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That's the research I read.

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Hopefully it'll be a win.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Hopefully.

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I have no doubt it will be.

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I'm sure.

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it'll definitely help with the

stimulation and the What's the word here?

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That's why you're the doctor and I'm not.

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Dr Omar Kokhar: Now neurologic

disease is becoming a problem.

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Parkinson's and AIDS associated dementia.

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And what we're learning is that the

concept of neuroplasticity in the neurons

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and the biocells of your brain where

The more you stretch, the more you think

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differently, the more you're challenged.

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That's how those cells remain

pliable and don't stagnate.

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And that's One way I justify it to myself.

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Sometimes when Sometimes when I get

bogged down updating the website,

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opening a shipping account, or updating

a listing A lot of it, I do myself

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with my fingerprints all over it.

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Hopefully that's a nice byproduct that,

will stave off some neurological illness.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: I would encourage

everyone to keep the brain active.

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Listening to podcasts

Doing brain exercises.

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Yeah, just reading books, obviously.

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Purchasing trading cards.

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That's going to be a part of it as

well with the statistics on the back.

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do whatever you can to stay off what

is a debilitating illness in dementia.

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Now, I wanted to talk about

trading cards on the macro.

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North America this winter, we

had a big story in baseball.

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the Pittsburgh Pirates placed a

bounty on the Paul Skeens rookie

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card, the one of one version.

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they offered 30 years of season tickets

behind home plate, I believe it was a

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signed jersey, and a couple of other,

once in a lifetime goodies to the

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person that surrendered said card.

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I think he also got to meet Paul Skeens

and spend another game with his partner.

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the card was scooped up by

an 11 year old in California.

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They offered to, to let the card go

to auction with proceeds given to the

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fire recovery effort in Los Angeles.

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my question to you, Dr.

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Omar is, has that sparked new

interest in the card trading game?

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I

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Dr Omar Kokhar: think It's just augmented

the interest that was already there.

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Since COVID the new found interest

in cards and, there was a time where

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people were looking at NFTs and

digital collectibles, but it comes

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back to, holding and collecting and.

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Don't underestimate how a lot of the

starts, which is, certainly in my

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case, which was, me and my son, get

a pack of cards, and we open them up,

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and we look at, hey, who did you get?

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Who did you get?

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that's part of the fun and the bond

that's created, for a lot of people,

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that's what it's all about, they remember

cracking cards open with their dad, or

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uncle, In a world that's becoming so

digitized, I think that's where physical

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collectibles, whether it's memorabilia or

trading cards, have really roared back.

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people are craving that connection

with their friends, with their

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buddies, with their family members,

where we're not on our phones.

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We're holding things, and talking

to each other, which, as is just

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getting more and more, more and more.

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Just, it's rare.

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We connect behind screens and so

collectibles gives us an opportunity

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to connect without a screen.

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I think that's what people subconsciously

were reacting to during COVID and

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that's only carried on since COVID.

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I think it's great for everybody involved.

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The players, local card

shops are doing fantastic.

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And it brings, family members together.

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I don't see a downside, and

that's what I saw, where we didn't

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really have that in cricket.

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And I think that's the opportunity

for folks to, to connect with their

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kids, with their loved ones, over

their shared passion of the game

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: it's a beautiful thing.

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It's talking points, not only the

names, it's also some statistics,

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some of the key moments that

some of these players have had.

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you touched on, the proliferation

of computers and digitization

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could you ever see your offering of

cards, expand, have a NFT offering?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: I don't know about

NFT, that's a Whole different subset,

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It's commercial And blockchain based

Now, what I will say we will likely

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do, sooner rather than later, is

something called a digital twin.

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And a digital twin would mean that if

you owned a physical asset, you would

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have a digital twin of that asset that

you could share with your friends.

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Now how do you attach

that to a blockchain?

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Do you put a monetization on that?

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I think it's to be determined.

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I think we know what we have with

physical trading card products.

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I think with digital, I think there

was something about three or four

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years ago with the NBA, with FIFA.

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They looked at digital collectibles.

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I don't know the long term interest

level which informs the amount of,

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time and financial investment At the

moment, we're focused on physical.

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With potentially a digital twin, we

want is for someone in India or Pakistan

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to share with their new buddy in

Australia, Hey, look what I pulled in

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my physical pack, and show the digital

twin That's something we're looking at

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: And something

right at our fingertips is the

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first series of cards, available for

release if you order now, you get

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shipping from April, is that correct?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: Yes, we're still

getting signatures and autographs

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back from the legends in this

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release.

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printing is ongoing, collation is ongoing,

just waiting for a couple of signatures

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to come back we're looking at an April

ship date, and I think collectors

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are going to really what they pull.

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I think they're going to enjoy

the quality, the inserts, the

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rarity of some of the cards.

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the autographs we have are

our dream team of cricket.

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several have never ever signed before.

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So I think there's a novelty

factor of getting their first,

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authenticated trading cards.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Yeah, that's special.

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Literally one of a kind.

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after this release, There's going to

be a second release in:

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Dr Omar Kokhar: Yes, part of our thinking

is that we look at this as a cyclical

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process, as our word gets out that we're

a bonafide company, a passion project,

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looking to connect people, we've had

people reaching out as that happens,

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we'll have more legends come to the fray.

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We'll have more product out there.

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Eventually, we need to pivot into the

current, ecosystem, the cricket boards

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and leagues, such as IPL and CPL.

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until now, there's been unawareness

around the concept of trading

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cards, especially rookie cards.

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I've had several people reach

out to me in terms of the IPL.

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When someone comes out in Premier

League and some guy has a killer first

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season, they literally have asked Hey,

how come you don't have a rookie card?

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And I'm like , We should.

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We could generate interest, we could

generate value, we could generate wealth.

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And so we've had some preliminary

conversations with leagues and

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franchises, eventually, you have to look

at What people want from collectibles,

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you want rookie cards, right?

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You want to potentially collect

something that could increase in

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value down the road as something that

you can watch on TV now instead of

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watching them on YouTube highlights.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: I think the last

summer, we also saw quite an explosion

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when it came to anything rookie

related for Caitlin Clark in the WNBA.

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Do you think we could see,

some women's cricket cards

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coming soon from Sportsnexion?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: The WPL in India

has been fantastic The quality of

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players, the cricket is top notch.

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I think that's a huge potential

segment, They deserve the exposure,

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the recognition , their battles and

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journey.

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it's personal to me as a 12 year old,

daughter's dad who wants to play cricket,

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how do we get our girls into cricket,

how do we get the women into cricket,

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so definitely something we're exploring.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Very good.

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speaking of exploring, I want

to touch on the T20 World Cup

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because that's special to me.

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Being the fact that it's 10 years

since the World Cup, the 50 overs

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World Cup for men was held in

Australia I was at the final.

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I was lucky to get down

to the MCG for that.

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How did you find the MCG

as a stadium and experience

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Dr Omar Kokhar: The first

time you get off the train we

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were there for Pakistan India.

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we were staying near Chinatown

and got on the tram the atmosphere

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and carnival had started.

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when you get out And see the

MCG in all its glory, you think

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about it's test match history.

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for someone from Pakistan

:

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looking at the MCG from that point of

view, and the Shane Warren statue, you

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get goosebumps Shane was from, Victoria.

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a local boy.

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his athletic ability, was transcendent.

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People don't know, in the mid 90s,

Nike signed him with Michael Jordan.

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think about that, it

boggles your imagination.

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That's how larger than life he was.

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walking the MCG and seeing the pitch,

the next day, the Melbourne Sun, I

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believe is the newspaper, they had an

article, and they said something that

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you could hear Exactly how the game

was going from three kilometers away.

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That's how loud it was.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: Wow.

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Yes.

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Shout out to the Herald Song.

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the Daily Tablo, always on top of sport.

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Melbourne is arguably the sporting

capital of the world Now, , Dr.

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Oma, do you think we're finding

the balance in terms of the

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amount of cricket Is there still

too much cricket being played?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: That's a really good

question, and my buddies and I have

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bandied that around quite a bit.

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And I think we've overshot the

runway in terms of leagues.

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I think we need to bring

it back to countries.

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But what I definitely think is outdated

now is bilateral tours and series.

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I think there's a couple of landmark

tours, like the Ashes, the Border

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Gavaskar Trophy, the, West Indies, I

think it's the , Frank Worrell Trophy.

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Yeah, Frank Worrell Trophy.

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But what I would love to see more

of is triangular and quadrangular.

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You have to look no further than just last

week, the Four Nations Cup and hockey.

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There are so many people who

had no idea about hockey who

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tuned in to watch USA Canada.

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That's what we need.

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We need more tournaments, in the USA,

in Dallas or Fort Lauderdale where

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we have the cricket tournaments.

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we need the Pakistan India

West Indies Trilateral Series.

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there would not be a single seat empty

we need, a USA Netherlands Scotland

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England quadrangular tournament hosted,

at Lourdes or in the Netherlands or

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Ireland.

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or in Dubai.

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Dubai is a fantastic sporting capital.

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How do we get India, Pakistan,

Sri Lanka, Bangladesh.

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A four nation series.

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I think that's where we need To go

to make tours more meaningful , no

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one wants to watch two teams

play each other five times

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It gets boring.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: as someone who grew up

with what was initially called the Benson

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Hedges World Series, and then had a number

of different Names down the line, but it

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was essentially the triangular, sometimes

quadrangular series in Australia.

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It was a, always a highlight of the

summer when it was Australia plus

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whoever they played in the test.

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And then a third team that was invited,

it was, yeah, seeing the competitiveness.

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It was like a mini world cup every summer

and it was something to look forward to.

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Everyone played with passion.

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teams were hungry and

going after it every time,

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And the recent triangular series that

Pakistan was involved in, yeah, that

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was definitely one to watch as well.

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New Zealand, they're often the sleeping

giant in terms of limited overs cricket,

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but they'll definitely be a team to

watch in future tournaments as well.

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Dr.

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Omar, it's been a great chat.

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Where can we find more about

Sports In Action and Series 1

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of the All Star Trading Cards?

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Dr Omar Kokhar: Follow our

website at sportsinaction.

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com and follow us on Instagram

and Facebook at Sports In Action.

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if you're a fan of sports cricket

and a fan of collectibles, you'll

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want to check us out because you're

going to love what we're doing.

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Nii Wallace-Bruce: You

definitely want to see that.

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one day, you'll be scrolling through and

just see Wasim Akram on SportsConnection.

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You wonder, how did that happen?

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:

That is the SportsConnection experience.

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It's sports by name and connections by

nature, you're going to want to check

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that out I've been your host Nemo Spruce

and this has been another episode of PSP.

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About the Podcast

Pro Sports Podcasters
No Sport Left Behind
The Pro Sports Podcasters is hosted by Nii Wallace-Bruce, and Justen Williams. On this podcast there is no sport too big, or too small for us to cover. You'll learn something every episode!

#NoSportLeftBehind

Our guests include the top athletes in their sport, coaches, sports broadcasters, sports agents, league administrators, and dedicated fans. We cover every sport from every angle, and provide perspectives that other podcasts ignore. Each host has expert knowledge in a number of sports. So when the opportunity arises to educate our audience, we take every opportunity.

Our hosts Nii Wallace-Bruce, and Justen Williams have all spent time in front of the camera as well. Having appeared in commercials, dramatic roles, music videos, public events, and Live performances. The Pro Sports Podcasters are more than the voices you have come to recognize hearing twice a week.

Enjoy the podcast, and to connect with the Pro Sports Podcasters there are links in the show notes of every episode!
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