Episode 8

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Published on:

21st Sep 2025

Green and Gold Resilience: Rugby Recoveries and Reformations with Christy Doran

In this episode of PSP, host Nii Wallace-Bruce goes around the grounds of international rugby with Christy Doran from The Roar Rugby. The conversation ranges from a look at the 2025 Rugby World Cup in England, currently in its final stages, featuring matchups between Canada vs New Zealand and France vs England. The episode continues with an analysis of the Rugby Championship in the Southern Hemisphere, where Argentina, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa vie for the title. Christy examines the the Wallabies' recent performances (04:08), their strategic plans (11:32), and the revival of Australian rugby.

The discussion also covers the changing landscape of international rugby with the upcoming changes to the Rugby Championship format and the potential impact of these changes on Australia and Argentina. Additionally, insights are shared on the Wallaroos' World Cup performance and the future of women's rugby in Australia (21:12). The episode wraps up with a look at the financial state of Rugby Australia and the preparations for future World Cups (24:41).

Christy Doran

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Opening and closing music courtesy of Jeremiah Alves - "Evermore".

Transcript
PSP:

Welcome into another episode of PSPI am your host Knee Wallace Spruce.

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And.

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We are in a festival of rugby at the

moment on both sides of the world.

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In England, we have the Win

England's Rugby World Cup, which

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is reaching the business end.

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We're down to the final four.

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It's gonna be Canada against New

Zealand and a six Nations matchup

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where France takes on the host England.

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Heading south, we have the rugby

championship where it's all to play

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for amongst all four participants.

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Any one of the four of Argentina,

Australia, New Zealand, or South

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Africa could win the tournament,

which is the last in its current form.

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We are gonna get into all of that and

more with our guest joining us from

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Sydney, Australia, close to home.

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It's Christy Doran from the Raw Rugby.

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You can find his work on X

Machine, formerly known as Twitter.

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Christy p Doran, he's also the

host of the Roar Rugby Podcast

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with Matt Tamo of Wallaby Fame.

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We'll bring him in.

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Christy, how's it going?

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Christy Doran: Hey Dave.

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Good to join you, mate.

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Very, very well, thank you.

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It's sunny in Sydney.

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It's warm, as you might have seen from the

from the match on Saturday in front of a

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full house at the Sydney football stadium.

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And the nice weather's continuing.

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PSP: Yeah, and it's sunny

days for Australian rugby.

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Let's be honest, the start of the

decade was a little bit rough coming

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outta the, the COVID pandemic.

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, Some dark clouds there, but

on the field, Smit is right,

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at the ship for the Wallabies.

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They had a.

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Pretty good go against the

British and Irish lines.

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You could argue that they were one

call away from winning the series

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depending on how you feel about the

way the second test ended in Melbourne.

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But they've parlayed that into a

great start to the rugby championship.

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They surprised South Africa at Alice Park

and they've won three outta the four.

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What are you seeing with

the Wallabies in:

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Christy Doran: Yeah, I was

writing something yesterday

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actually for a Japanese outlet,

and I was talking about a.

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The Castle, which is a great Australian

iconic film in the late:

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and Dennis DEOs talking about the

vibe and Mabo and everything else.

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I, the vibe has changed in Austral and

rugby over the last two, three months.

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And you, we've gone from watching super

rugby matches in Australia where, you

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know, from the SFS at Aian Stadium, it

might be 12, 13,000 people watching it

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and it feels, you know, pretty empty.

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And that was the feeling right

across the country and even.

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Even the opening, probably five or six

games in the Lions series before the test

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matches started it just felt so quiet.

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And I remember the English,

particularly the English journalists

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but you know, the British and Irish

journals talking about how quiet

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the first test felt up in Brisbane.

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You know, it was 50,000 there, but it

didn't really feel like a Lions contest.

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And then Will's, skelton just

grabs the collar of Murro Toia.

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The lions captain, and it almost

changed there in Melbourne with his

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return and his bullock and running.

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And they just became a bit more of an

edge around not just the wallabies on

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the field, but a a, a public, which

really rallied and fell behind them.

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And we saw that on the weekend, you know,

it was hostile scenes in Sydney where the

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referee Christophe Ripley from, you know,

the French born English referee and his.

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Fellow officials.

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It was, you know, it, it was the last 15

minutes with kind of raw ca casinos there.

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, And quite a few commentators have picked

up on how loud it was, and it was a

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loud rendition of the national anthem.

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And I think the, the public has

really rallied behind this team.

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And they like the, the character

that has been shown, the understated

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nature of Joe Schmidt and.

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Yeah, it's, it's chalk and cheese

compared to what it was just a few

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months ago, but especially coming outta

the Rugby World Cup in:

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public felt angered, disappointed,

let down by Eddie Jones and the fiasco

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of, of what occurred up there with him

speaking to Japanese officials around.

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Potentially taking over come 2024.

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So yeah, it, it's been a remarkable

turnaround in a Australian rugby.

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And we've got a BLE low cup

series just around the corner.

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And this is the real test

of where this site is.

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'cause you always compare yourselves

to the cousins across the ditch.

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PSP: Absolutely and interesting.

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I always remember, you'd always know

who the Kiwis are in your friend

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circle or in your office on a Monday

morning whenever it's after a bloody

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slow weekend, because yeah, you'd

always hear about someone who has a.

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You know, an uncle from Christchurch or

something like that, with the Kiwis being

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so dominant people gravitate towards those

loose roots anyway what, what I've noticed

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in this, series of test matches is the

wallabies have been running out the tests.

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They may have a slow start from time

to time, but whether it was against

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the lines, spring box in Johannesburg

and Cape Town against the two

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tests against Argentina, it doesn't

matter how they start, the Wallies

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always come home with a wet sail.

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What, in the DNA there, is that

coaching or is that just fitness?

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How did that come about?

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Christy Doran: I think it's a combination

of both of those, and I think it, it,

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it's also Joe Schmidt that's got a, a,

you know, prioritizing the bench as well.

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It's not necessarily saying we're

putting worse players on the

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bench, but that it's, it's pretty.

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I, I think Joe Schmidt's

making a cons concerted effort

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there to finish test strong.

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So, Angus Bell, we know that

he's one of the most damaging

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ball runners in the world.

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Tate McDermott, a guy that loves

to run the ball, pick holes.

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He's scored, tries regularly off coming

off the bench, but he picks up the tempo.

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You know, we, we saw in the weekend

weekend, Felipo Duna, a really quality.

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Finisher was part of the side last

year heavily before he suffered

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a, I think it was a broken leg in

Sydney, you know, 12 months ago.

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So there, there's, there's guys that

have this belief that they can come on

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and inject speed, and we're seeing that.

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But I also just think it's,

it's speaks to what some of the

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strengths and characteristics

of this team is, and that's.

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There's a bit of a never say

die attitude about these guys.

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They've, they've

experienced what it's like.

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They've all grown up watching the

wallabies not get across the finish line.

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And I think that there's a, there's

a nice kind of attitude in this team,

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which is helping them in the finish line.

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But I also gotta say, you know, James

O'Connor, he's in the last four tests.

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We've seen the comebacks

over the last few months.

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James O'Connor played that role

brilliantly for the crusaders, didn't he?

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In 2025.

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I think about what he was like in

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bench a couple of times during

the series against England.

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And in, in Brisbane.

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He, he was poor coming off the bench.

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And he's learned what it requires in the

last 20 minutes of test matches around how

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do you find space and manipulate teams.

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And he's been central to that,

that comeback over the last

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month, you know, in Johannesburg.

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Clearly the wallabies just ran all

over the top of the spring box, and

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you're right to highlight that over the

last few weeks against Argentina too.

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So it wouldn't just be one thing, but

I, I think the right plays are finishing

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test matches, but it's all about

starting the game finish starting the

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game stronger rather because the last

couple of test matches they've allowed

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the oppositions to get out, out to

quick starts through poor discipline.

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And that's not you.

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You can't let New Zealand run out to

a fast start, particularly at Eden

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Park in, in a week and a half's time.

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PSP: Absolutely.

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Now let's stay with JOC there, now

that, that guy brings like memories.

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'cause I was a, I was an inaugural

season ticket holder for the

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Western Force back in 2006 and he

was a spratly young lad coming from

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Queensland coming across to the west.

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then when I moved to Brisbane.

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And was working there.

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He came, he actually came

back to the reds, came back

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from I believe it was France.

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So

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Christy Doran: Hmm.

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PSP: interesting to see his

progress throughout his career.

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And lot of people use the term

maturity, which understandable,

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for a variety of reasons.

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I gotta ask Christy, in terms of the

line series, would he have made that

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difference that the wallabies needed?

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Christy Doran: That's a good question.

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I, I came out quite strongly

against the reactive nature of the

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Wallabies ahead of the Lion Series.

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And I, you know, one of those

examples that I painted and I, I

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put out there was that, you know,

James O'Connor wasn't gonna be part

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of the squad until Noah, Lola, CEO,

seasoned an injury against Fiji, which

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is, I think it was about July 6th.

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And then, you know, a handful of days

later, the squad is named, and it

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was only on the morning of Friday.

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Which was about two hours before the squad

was announced that James O'Connor was

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told that he was in, so it was, it was

really late in the piece that he came in.

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The first test match is just eight days

later and there was no way in hell.

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James O'Connell was gonna be lining

up against the lights because

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it was too late in the piece.

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We know everything of what Jo Joe Schmidt

does as a coach is he tends to b bring

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players in and he won't actually play them

until at least a week later so that they

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can have a couple of weeks in the training

environment to get up to speed with

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calls, but I just couldn't understand why.

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When you had guys that were injury prone

that had several concussions in the last

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few months that were very little tens

in CIO and and Tom Liner, why would you

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not have a bit of an insurance policy?

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Why would you not just

have a fourth 10 in there?

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And they had Tain Edmond in there,

but what are you getting with Tain?

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Edmond, you, he played one test and

two minutes at that point in time.

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So I was, I thought it was

really slow out of the gates.

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We saw guys like Rob Valentini.

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Wil Skelton missed the first test because

of injuries suffered before the Fiji test.

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They could have played

in that first match.

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And I, I thought it was a sleepy

start and it was reflected by

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the first 40 minutes in Brisbane.

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So they responded very well in Melbourne.

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Obviously they ran out to a

really big league, but they

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couldn't finish the test match.

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And interestingly, Ben, Ben Donaldson.

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Wasn't brought on in that second test.

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They played Tom Liner for 80 minutes.

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Don didn't come on.

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He had shown that he could finish test

matches pretty well, but for a side

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that needed maybe a bit of experience

around how to close out a test match,

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who would've been better there?

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James O'Connor would've been Donaldson.

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I tend to think James O'Connor, and

we've seen that over the last month.

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And yeah, hindsight's

a beautiful thing, but.

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I, I just thought there was too much

youth in key decision making positions.

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And so yes, I would think that,

that, that, that I kind of would've

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made a positive impact, positive

difference, but it's in the

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rear view mirror now, isn't it?

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But.

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One thing I'll say is that the,

yes, we celebrated the Australian

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Rugby fans celebrated beating

the lion in that third test.

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Well, there's no reason why the

Wallabies couldn't have won that

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second test, and, and I think it was

a missed opportunity not beating a

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Lion series in the overall series.

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It was a pretty poor Lions team,

and it was reflected by it, the way

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through the, the series that even

though there was one or two big wins

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over the force and over the reds,

they struggled to put away the tars.

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They struggled to put away the brumbies.

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They barely got across

the line against the.

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And an Australian Pacifica

and First Nations team.

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You know, they were pretty poor for

75% of the series, and yet they now go

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back home and they've arrived home and

they're considered lions champions.

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And, you know, the, the reputation of,

of this beast, you know, they, they feel

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like it was cemented when the Wallabies

beat South Africa in, in at Ellis Park.

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You know, in reality, the lullabies

were only getting going at that point in

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time when the line series was finishing.

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So, yeah, I think in, in

hindsight and reflection.

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The wall of missed a beat there,

and they definitely missed a

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beat, I think on James O'Connor.

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PSP: Yeah.

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And it's also telling that Argentina

defeated the lion as they started

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their sojourn across to the, under,

I re I did watch all the games.

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It was, it was always a

fun start for the morning.

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'cause they usually come

on at 6:00 AM Eastern time.

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So it's a nice bonus

is a, a start the day.

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But yeah, the blood is slow, is

gonna be interesting that, that forms

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the, the next window of the rugby

championship, which is gonna be the last.

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Of its current form because New Zealand

and South Africa have opted to play a

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series of matches with each other in 2026.

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this one, this one really

is for all the marbles.

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It's not just the, the annual bla level,

it's the rugby championship as we know it.

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And as we've talked about,

it's also a yard stick as to

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where the wallabies are at.

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How do you feel about

the next couple of weeks?

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Do you think that the Wallabies can

get it done given that they've had

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some slow starts, or do they need

to send an SOS to James O'Connor?

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Do they, do they try and get

Wolf Scotland back from France?

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What do they need to do to, to

get a New Zealand team that is

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seemingly attainable at the moment?

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Christy Doran: Yeah, there is a

bit of vulnerability about it, and

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that's what makes the decision to let

James O'Connor get on a plane even

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more baffling and flabbergasting.

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He, he, he caught a, a Monday night

flight at about nine o'clock to England.

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He, he touchdown over the last 16 hours.

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We're recording this on,

on Wednesday morning and.

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To me, like the Wallabies are naming

their squad on Thursday and they

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travel to Auckland Sunday mid-morning.

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Like, is James O'Connor gonna return?

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No.

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And, and was he required at Leicester?

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My understanding is no, he's

only gonna be seeing them.

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He's gonna do a medical on Thursday.

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He's not planning on playing

for a couple of weeks.

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You know, the, the new coach there is

Jeff Paring who just left the Wallabies

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environment following the Lions series.

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So.

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There was enough love there,

like for O'Connor to stay.

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Joe, Joe Schmidt has ultimately

said, you know what, we're gonna

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back youth and unless there's a

major U-turn in the next 24 hours,

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O'Connor's not gonna be in there.

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And it's because Joe Schmidt has decided

to, to move away from James O'Connor.

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So I can't understand that.

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Given what we've seen on the park

over the last month, we've seen.

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Tain Edmond had 55 minutes and

struggle in Sydney against Argentina.

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We had Tom line a struggle in

55 minutes up in Townsville.

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On both occasions, the Wallabies

had significant comebacks and had

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James had kind of been out there

for longer we might've seen a

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different result up in up in Sydney.

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At the very least.

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So, yeah, I can't understand that.

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It's a different scenario with

Wil Skelton, who's been back

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in France for a few weeks.

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He made his return for La Rochelle.

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They play on Sunday evening French time,

which is Monday morning, Australian time.

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And then of course a test

match on Saturday afternoon.

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So with the world rugby, windows,

Skelton could get on a plane.

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Monday, first thing Monday morning

and, and potentially arrive, you know,

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Tuesday afternoon in in Auckland.

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It would allow him to have a

captain's run on Thursday, but it

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would probably be maybe too much

of a risk to have him go out there.

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He would know all the calls and so forth.

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But would he be able to play at 90%?

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A hundred percent.

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That's probably unlikely given

jet lag and everything else.

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So.

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They've got great finishes in Jorgenson

and so, but it does seem like.

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The odds are stacked against them.

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And, and we've, you know, Sonny Bill

Williams doesn't make a lot of sense

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generally when he speaks, but he did

make a good point on Monday when he

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was speaking on stands between two post

podcasts where he said it's like a morgue.

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When the All blacks suffer an

embarrassing defeat and that they're

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forced to look inside, it's like

a, you're going to a funeral and

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this team will notoriously rally.

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And that's what's happened

over the last 10, 15 years.

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Every time that you think that the All

Blacks are vulnerable, they've come

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back and they've, they've fired a shot.

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And we saw them do that.

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Against South Africa just a couple

of weeks ago, in at Eden Park.

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So I, I think that it'll be a very,

very difficult match to win, but

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it certainly will be made harder

if James O'Connor's not there.

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We've gotta remember, Nick White's

gonna, RET has retired as well.

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Jake Gordon's likely to return.

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You know, he hasn't

played in a month's time.

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You know, Tom Liners played

55 Minutest Edmonds played 90

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minutes of test match footy.

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Ben Donaldson hasn't played a second

of test footy in the last six weeks.

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Hasn't played any club action

either, so the halves are gonna be

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underdone, and that's probably not

what you want going into a big letter.

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So opener.

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PSP: staying at the number nine position,

what are your thoughts on Tate McDermott?

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Do you think he can be a starter

once again for the Wallabies?

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Christy Doran: Well, we've seen him

start test matches before, haven't we?

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We, we saw him in the 2023 World Cup.

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He was the start of with

the first choice player.

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He captain the wallabies against

the All Blacks at Ian Dunedin.

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And of course.

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You know, they were only sunk

by, I think it was the 79th

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minute penalty to, to Richie moa.

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So, he, he missed the test match

against Fiji, which was the crucial game

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that the Wallabies lost in that World

Cup, along with Tupo and, and Skel.

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'cause they had injuries and,

and McDermott had a concussion.

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So it was probably telling that he missed

that match and they, and they lose.

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I, I, I think he can start test

matches, but I think what we've seen

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with Tess games is that the last

half an hour is so crucial and that

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to have someone like a McDermott

come off the bench is, is crucial.

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And would he be as effective

starting test matches?

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I'm not sure.

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I, I think there is a time and

a place for him, to, to start.

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We've gotta remember against

England Twickenham, where they

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also had a great comeback victory

and it was a, a nine year drought.

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Breaking wind at Twickenham.

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Jake Gordon went off at the half an

hour mark with a, with a blood bin.

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And he came back later on.

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But when he came back on Tate McDermott

had caused damage in that English pack

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because, you know, he caught some.

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Tiring defenders napping and he

helped Harry Wilson's score and that

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really was . The springboard behind

the wallabies come from behind wind.

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So he, he has a role to pay.

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I just don't think it'll be at the

moment against the All Box Ed Park.

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I think that they will return to

Jake Gordon and we've gotta remember

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Jake Gordon was excellent against

the lines in Melbourne where he had a

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brilliant performance and, and not many

people could, could understand why.

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Nick White was picked for that third

test because Jake Gordon was left

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out and he then subsequently actually

suffered a, an injury at training on the

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Thursday, but that was, that was after.

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Nick White had, had been known

for what was gonna be a farewell

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PSP: christie, we are bidding

farewell to the rugby championship

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as we know it for 2026 and beyond.

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What do we know about the future

of the competition going forward?

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term?

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Christy Doran: other, just the once.

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And of course, there's the second game in,

in the, for the BLE Life series as well.

351

:

So that will occur again in 26.

352

:

Not many people will know.

353

:

That'll will likely change in

:

354

:

be a return to tour tours and.

355

:

The timing of it's not ideal and it, yeah,

it's unfortunate timing, but some of the,

356

:

the decision makers here believe that that

tours longer tours has been something that

357

:

people have got behind in recent years.

358

:

And they're gonna go down that route.

359

:

So unless that's changed over the last

week or two, the thinking, that'll be

360

:

announced in a couple of weeks time.

361

:

So, you know, in 2026, we know that

there's gonna be this so-called greatest

362

:

rivalry where New Zealand Tour, South

Africa, and it will be you know, the,

363

:

the New Zealand side will take on some of

the provincial teams in South Africa and

364

:

then three or four test matches as well.

365

:

So yeah, it's, it's, oh, some people

have labeled selfish, I think it is.

366

:

And there's an element

of that that relies that.

367

:

Broadcasters will pay a lot of

money for that because it will

368

:

capture the world's attention.

369

:

But what does it do for, for, you know,

the rugby championship for their sansa

370

:

allies in Argentina and Australia?

371

:

It's not a great look.

372

:

I know that Phil, the Rugby Australia.

373

:

CEO's not happy about that, but

they've flexed their muscle and

374

:

to a an extent they can do that.

375

:

You know, the every World Cup since 2007

has been won by either New Zealand or

376

:

South Africa, and they're featured in

the vast majority of World Cup finals.

377

:

So, yeah, it's, it's, to me, it's

like a, it, it, it feels like what

378

:

happens in India with the BCCI India

who in generates so much the wealth,

379

:

are looking out for themselves.

380

:

Whereas I think they've got

a responsibility to world

381

:

rugby to come and go, hang on.

382

:

What about the other nations?

383

:

What's it gonna be, what's

the impact gonna be?

384

:

We do know that there's gonna be

a Nation's Cup though in:

385

:

With this changing kind

of world landscape.

386

:

There's no international

calendar just yet.

387

:

Maybe that'll occur and then it will be

easier to have a, a rugby championship,

388

:

which is played at a different time of

year, potentially going forward as well.

389

:

But at the moment, yeah, it's,

it's seems bizarre, the timing.

390

:

But this is the path that

they're gonna go down.

391

:

PSP: Now, just for clarity, Kristi,

are you referring to the Pacific

392

:

Nations Cup that is currently

happening in the United States?

393

:

Christy Doran: No, no.

394

:

The Nation's Cup being the,

the new tournament with

395

:

World Rugby with the top 12.

396

:

Yeah.

397

:

Nations that are accumulate points

and then there's a, a winner at the

398

:

ya you know, there's still where

those, the finals have played.

399

:

The point ends of that are kind of

somewhat up for debate and discussion

400

:

at the moment for 26, 28, 30.

401

:

But yeah, it, it I like.

402

:

The Pacific Cup.

403

:

We've seen some, some interesting

results over the last month

404

:

since that cup got underway.

405

:

Japan obviously showing some of

their quality, the, the speed that

406

:

they're playing with at the moment,

and another big win on the weekend.

407

:

So, and of course the US qualifying

for the World Cup just on the

408

:

weekend by feeding Samoa too.

409

:

So, yeah, it's a good

tournament in itself.

410

:

. It doesn't look like that's gonna occur

anytime soon, but I, I, I think an

411

:

avenue for that to go down and maybe

even the winner of, of, of the Pacific

412

:

Nations Cup to, to, to rotate and

challenge for the, the side that, that

413

:

finishes lasting the rugby championship.

414

:

I think that would be, you know,

it doesn't have the history of

415

:

the Six Nations, which was once

the Five Nations and so forth.

416

:

Like, I, I think it could be quite cool.

417

:

Way to reward growth in, in

some of the Pacific nations.

418

:

Mm-hmm.

419

:

PSP: Absolutely.

420

:

And, talking to the Canadian experience,

it's, I think it's going from being what?

421

:

It's by and large in a semi-professional

situation to be becoming a

422

:

fully professional organization.

423

:

So you don't have we have now with

the women just to get across to a

424

:

tournament because that that's really

what the organization is known.

425

:

So they need to come out and.

426

:

I get whatever help they need, whether

that be from the corporate world or

427

:

if the, the government can chip in a

little bit and they need to, to make it

428

:

saying that the Canadian team did

dispatch the Wallaroos in the quarter

429

:

finals, and they're looking pretty

good for the rest of the tournament.

430

:

Where did it go wrong

though, for the good and gold

431

:

Christy Doran: you know, hammered by

432

:

English team who were really

sloppy in that first 40 minutes.

433

:

I, you know, and then straight after

getting well beaten by Canada, where

434

:

their defensive system was odd, where they

were absolutely demolished either side of

435

:

the rock, rock by the Canadian forwards.

436

:

They barely fired a shot throughout

that entire test, and then they come

437

:

out and they say, we need more funding.

438

:

I think you gotta be careful about

that because they were, they had more

439

:

staff than they've ever had before.

440

:

Business class.

441

:

There was, there was a great and

step in the right direction regarding

442

:

the support of the Wallaroo program.

443

:

You know, seven test matches they

had in the lead up to, the World

444

:

Cup which was the most that they've

ever had had of a tournament.

445

:

So the preparation for this

side was actually quite good.

446

:

There's, there's gotta be more

investment of course, but I think

447

:

there needed to be more analysis.

448

:

A critique around where the wallaroos

are at, because I don't think it was good

449

:

enough that some of their performances

and certainly some of the, the coaching

450

:

philosophies around their defensive

structures, which was really, really poor.

451

:

So where do they need to go?

452

:

There, there needs to be some really

tough questions that are asked and

453

:

you know, around the Super W program.

454

:

So having full games, which is what it

was this year, I think it was three or

455

:

four games, and then just a, you know,

a final series is not good enough.

456

:

Everyone can accept that, but yeah.

457

:

Can you double the competition,

the length of the competition

458

:

with squads at the moment?

459

:

There's not enough money there.

460

:

People can accept that.

461

:

I, I think that there needs

to be a, a side shelved.

462

:

I think the brumbies are

the most obvious team.

463

:

They've gotta go back to at least most

three sides, perhaps even two sides.

464

:

Condense the talent, have bigger

squad sizes, have longer seasons.

465

:

Join the super rugby

peaky across the ditch.

466

:

And then, then you'll have these women

play consistently in a, in a good.

467

:

Competition against some better

opposition in New Zealand.

468

:

And if they're not prepared

to do that, then you're gonna

469

:

need to find these wallies.

470

:

Have to find spots up in

the English premiership.

471

:

And, and continue with the wallaroos

having more test matches, which

472

:

was definitely a right step.

473

:

But they've gotta have better

coaching, I think, in there.

474

:

And they've gotta go after talent that's

gonna help their type five because it's

475

:

just not good enough at the moment.

476

:

The fitness isn't good

enough there too, so.

477

:

Yeah, rugby Australia's gotta have some

really look at themselves and demand,

478

:

how do we get this Wallaroos program

firing ahead of the 27 World Cup?

479

:

Because you need this Wallaroos team

making a semi-final at least, so that they

480

:

can play in the last couple weeks of a

World Cup and they need to have crowds.

481

:

And how do you get stronger crowds

where you need the Walla team winning.

482

:

So.

483

:

The yeah, they've gotta, they've

gotta consider themselves.

484

:

Do they wanna actually fire a

shot on the world stage, or are

485

:

they happy being where they are?

486

:

And I dare say that they're not.

487

:

And so therefore, they're gonna

have to make some big decisions.

488

:

PSP: Yeah, stronger crowds were

definitely a feature of the recent

489

:

British and Irish Lion Series against

the Wallabies, and that's been

490

:

a windfall for Australian rugby.

491

:

Is Australian rugby back on the right

track commercially off the field?

492

:

Christy Doran: Yeah, so, so by

having the lions come out here

493

:

and it was, it was well done.

494

:

Rugby Australia did a good job.

495

:

It looks like they banked around 120

million and, and more than half of

496

:

that had to go to paying back debt.

497

:

And in their debt facility

which was with Pacific.

498

:

Equity partners.

499

:

I'm pretty sure the, the

name was Pep regardless.

500

:

So that's, that's great that they're now.

501

:

And, and they've got the ability to

invest be strategic regarding their,

502

:

their money, their portfolios, their

investment, what they're gonna target.

503

:

You know, there's, there's been, you

know, in the NRL, they, they might've

504

:

bought hotels to help fund the game.

505

:

And, and a FLI think Marvel

Stadium was, was purchased.

506

:

So, they're all money generating.

507

:

Places and, and areas to pump up the game.

508

:

So what's rugby gonna do?

509

:

How are they gonna survive

and thrive into the future?

510

:

And these are the questions

that are being asked right now.

511

:

So we know that Rugby Australia will will

get another a hundred million from World

512

:

Rugby for hosting the 2027 World Cup.

513

:

And yes, it looks like they're going

to follow the lead of what the A OC

514

:

did back in 2000 where they got a pot

of gold from hosting the Olympics, and

515

:

then they, they put it in a fund, which

managed to generate money to bring back

516

:

money and then put it in areas where

they would get a return each year.

517

:

So, they're gonna do a similar sort of

thing I think in with Rugby Australia,

518

:

which, which makes a fair bit of sense.

519

:

They were so close to going and falling

over and going into bankruptcy and

520

:

insolvency following the, the onset

of COVID in, in:

521

:

have a broadcast agreement set in

stone in that point in time either.

522

:

So it's really encouraging.

523

:

Rugby Australia is that you're not gonna

go see them throw money at rugby league

524

:

players, which I think it makes sense

to do for one or two of them, you know?

525

:

Is there a, it looks like there's

a, a gaping hole in the number 10

526

:

position where a few guys that have

played a lot of rugby growing up

527

:

are, are dominating in Rugby league.

528

:

You know, I think that the QAs who are the

dolphins and, and he was a Barker product

529

:

that, that starred in schoolboy rugby.

530

:

So.

531

:

But, but you're not gonna have, you

a situation like back in the:

532

:

where Eddie Jones and Rugby or the, the

then Australian Rugby Union targeted

533

:

and put money into bringing Matt Rogers

and Laie and Wendell Sailor over.

534

:

It's just not gonna happen like that.

535

:

So they're gonna be much more strategic

around it, but they've got some,

536

:

they've got a shelf cost from what

I was told just a few weeks ago is

537

:

that they still need to get 15%.

538

:

Take off 15% of, of costs from

men's high performance rugby,

539

:

from, you know, salaries from

coaches because of the increased

540

:

cost for funding the women's game.

541

:

So it's not like they're out of the woods.

542

:

Their, their, their broadcast deal is,

is, is, it's very little compared to the A

543

:

FL and NRL, which are, you know, getting,

you know, 250 million a year or so.

544

:

And signing massive $1.5

545

:

billion deals.

546

:

You know, rugby Australia at the

moment are getting 37 mil now for

547

:

their next broadcast agreement.

548

:

37 mil a year.

549

:

41 in total with four mil

without being contrast.

550

:

So like advertising money.

551

:

So it's just as scar of what their

big, major competitors are getting.

552

:

So, yes, out of the woods, but they're

not necessarily swimming in cash either.

553

:

And for that to occur though, the

wallabies of the Walla Rose are

554

:

gonna have to win a World Cup.

555

:

We're, at the very least,

make World Cup final.

556

:

So can they do it?

557

:

Absolutely they can.

558

:

And with good coaching and with

reasonable selection, some strong talent

559

:

we've seen over the last 12 months,

how far the wallabies have come, but.

560

:

Let's hope that they're just at base camp

because they've got a long, long way to

561

:

go before they're reaching the summit.

562

:

And if, if they do, jeez, an

Australian public will follow them.

563

:

And we've seen with the amount of

gold that the, that the public has

564

:

worn to Tess match as recently and

how loyal and vocal have been is that.

565

:

A nation is willing to

follow a national side.

566

:

So fingers crossed it's two years or

so before the World Cup gets underway.

567

:

And you know, a lot needs to be done

between now and then to ensure that the

568

:

wallabies feature at the pointy end.

569

:

And we don't have another embarrassing

episode like we did in:

570

:

Yeah, the raw.com

571

:

au is, is the kind of go-to shop, I

think for Australian rugby anyway,

572

:

and covering all kind of levels of

the game, but especially the Wallabies

573

:

and the Wallaroo and super rugby.

574

:

But yet.

575

:

Twitter as well as is a good

way to go and, and kind of

576

:

engage in, in in rugby content.

577

:

But appreciate you

having me on the podcast.

578

:

Been great to talk about the game and,

there's a lot happening up in North

579

:

America Canada, the US of course,

qualifying for the World Cup, but.

580

:

Where to next for Canada?

581

:

How do, how do they go up the rankings?

582

:

We know that they compete

in Sevens programs.

583

:

So did the, the US sevens programs, but

the major League rugby is in kind of a

584

:

state of crisis at the moment, and what

is it, six years out before the men host

585

:

a World Cup, eight years before the women.

586

:

I think that is, that's a looming crisis

for world rugby, which they've gotta

587

:

get a handle on very, very quickly.

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About the Podcast

Pro Sports Podcasters
No Sport Left Behind
The Pro Sports Podcasters is hosted by Nii Wallace-Bruce, and Justen Williams. On this podcast there is no sport too big, or too small for us to cover. You'll learn something every episode!

#NoSportLeftBehind

Our guests include the top athletes in their sport, coaches, sports broadcasters, sports agents, league administrators, and dedicated fans. We cover every sport from every angle, and provide perspectives that other podcasts ignore. Each host has expert knowledge in a number of sports. So when the opportunity arises to educate our audience, we take every opportunity.

Our hosts Nii Wallace-Bruce, and Justen Williams have all spent time in front of the camera as well. Having appeared in commercials, dramatic roles, music videos, public events, and Live performances. The Pro Sports Podcasters are more than the voices you have come to recognize hearing twice a week.

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