Episode 14

full
Published on:

13th Mar 2025

Footy Families in Focus with John Walker

Host Nii Wallace-Bruce sits down with John Walker, Scottish football coach and analyst, to discuss the evolving role of analytics in football [1:35], focusing on its adoption in the UK and the impact of American investment in clubs like Glasgow Rangers. They delve into the success of Brentford and Brighton using data-driven recruitment [2:15] and the innovative model of the Right to Dream Academy [6:29]. They also touch on the rising popularity and unique challenges of the A-League in Australia [14:58], and the future prospects of San Diego in MLS [13:37] and the Canadian national team ahead of the next World Cup [17:19].

-------

John Walker:

Twitter

-------

Check out our website

#NoSportLeftBehind

Leave a review and let us know what you thought!

Opening and closing music courtesy of Jeremiah Alves - "Evermore".

Transcript
PSP:

I am your host, me, Wallace Bruce, and football is in session.

2

:

It's, international break

coming up in the men's

3

:

John Walker: Okay.

4

:

PSP: A guy with the most

refreshing name in football.

5

:

John Walker.

6

:

You can find on X.

7

:

At Walker underscore John, how

8

:

John Walker: Sorry, Oh, I'm good, mate.

9

:

Just finished my working day and

10

:

PSP: Tell us about that

11

:

John Walker: I'm a coach by trade,

coaching football and academy

12

:

football for about five or six years.

13

:

it's a closed shop if you've never had a

professional or semi professional career.

14

:

So I started turning my hand a little

bit to analysis and throughout that,

15

:

again, I started working with individual

players on a one to one basis when

16

:

I was at teams, but then started to

realise that within Scottish football

17

:

there was probably a massive gap.

18

:

And the market for that type of work

with people playing professionally at

19

:

clubs because not a lot of money in

Scottish football and if players want

20

:

to improve, it's off their own back.

21

:

So I work with a couple of confidential

clients within the Scottish Premier

22

:

League who I do work for literally just

going for the clips in an individual

23

:

basis, technical and discussions around

their clubs, what they think they can

24

:

do better and nothing that's tactical

because that's always going to fall on

25

:

the the management and coaching staff

26

:

So I can't interfere with that.

27

:

from that I've started working with

not my own agency, but an agency in

28

:

Scotland who, who deal with players.

29

:

So I'm kind of working with their

clientele on onboarding one to one clips,

30

:

PSP: Now,

31

:

in North America, where I am.

32

:

only need to look at baseball, the

Moneyball era of the:

33

:

way it's changed the game since.

34

:

Basketball has the game, where teams

are more inclined to shoot three

35

:

pointers, As opposed to going for

a more attainable two point shot.

36

:

You're seeing it in hockey and

in the NFL The NFL teams are

37

:

more likely to go for it in short

yardage situations on fourth down.

38

:

How has analytics shaped

the round ball game

39

:

John Walker: So it's a slow burn.

40

:

especially within the UK, America and

North America are always going to be miles

41

:

ahead of us just because of funding and

access to better technology and software.

42

:

the money ball system

adopted by Brentford,

43

:

PSP: to go,

44

:

John Walker: especially in recruitment,

45

:

PSP: hour

46

:

John Walker: we don't know

what the Jamestown Analytics

47

:

model is that Brighton use,

48

:

they're using computerized

data to recruit,

49

:

PSP: interview.

50

:

John Walker: there isn't

anyone better than Brighton.

51

:

PSP: project

52

:

John Walker: on recruitment and

consistent performance within the team

53

:

It's not like they're just recruiting

and selling players for better money.

54

:

They're also performing on the pitch

and staying in the Premier League.

55

:

I think that's going to fall into

place Hart of Midlodian in the

56

:

Scottish Premier League a top six

side, usually top three or four, are

57

:

now working with Jamestown Analytics.

58

:

In Scottish football, we're starting to

see people leverage against those, those

59

:

data models that can help potentially

recruitment and help potentially then

60

:

get player sales increased and then on

the pitch it's going to have results

61

:

as well because if you're recruiting

well and getting good players that

62

:

are going to improve at your club,

so data sets and the data modelling

63

:

and all that good stuff on the

recruitment side is definitely working.

64

:

In the actual playing side,

65

:

PSP: Transcription

66

:

John Walker: to understand

67

:

PSP: Okay.

68

:

John Walker: people learn differently.

69

:

whether that's in

70

:

PSP: So

71

:

John Walker: Corporate working

environments, and financial environments,

72

:

PSP: I'll see

73

:

John Walker: learn by doing, some

people need to see what they're

74

:

doing, some people need both.

75

:

And that's the bit that analysis

is probably bringing, and that

76

:

you're seeing footballers decision

making become better and better.

77

:

As time's going on and I think

the analysis and the coverage

78

:

of analysis is, is doing that.

79

:

And I think we're seeing that with, with

coaches as well, which is why there's

80

:

so many non playing coaches coming

81

:

PSP: president of FC Porto, Villas Boas.

82

:

Remember him He was one of the

frontline coaches who didn't have

83

:

a big playing career interesting

to see that proliferation nowadays.

84

:

I guess the trend of foreign ownership

with clubs, particularly in the UK,

85

:

seeing a lot of North Americans coming

in to buy clubs, do you think we might

86

:

see a faster transition to analytics?

87

:

John Walker: Yes, I think you're going

to see that with Glasgow Rangers, over

88

:

the next 6 to 24 months with the 49ers

group having apparently purchased a

89

:

majority share They're connected with

Leeds United on the cusp of becoming

90

:

a Premier League team, I imagine their

deal with Glasgow Rangers looks to be

91

:

concluded pretty much everything but in

due diligence and putting names to paper.

92

:

They will have looked at Rangers and

Scottish football if they have data

93

:

models for recruitment playing style

and identifying coaches already in place

94

:

within the 49ers group in Leeds United.

95

:

It's very little cost to roll that

model out into Rangers, get the right

96

:

players in, use them in Scottish

football, promote them sell them, and

97

:

do what Celtic have been doing winning

trophies, qualifying for Champions League

98

:

football, which brings them massive

dividends that they can take back out

99

:

to their shareholders, recruit well,

sell better, and continue that process.

100

:

you'll see a lot of these US firms

that have got good data models

101

:

already set up within other clubs

102

:

PSP: Yes.

103

:

John Walker: if they do

it right, I think maybe

104

:

PSP: Rangers

105

:

John Walker: is unique in that because

Because Celtic are so profitable and you

106

:

can see that, but there'll be a lot of

people that will try the Wrexham route,

107

:

will try the Birmingham route, will

try the Burnley route, Leeds United,

108

:

that will go and try and buy teams who

are just underneath the Premier League

109

:

in England, access to the Champions

League in Scotland, and so on, and

110

:

just kind of leverage the data models

111

:

PSP: Rangers

112

:

they're a big club, a relatively big

club, but just that they've had a

113

:

few years where they were essentially

in the wilderness because of.

114

:

Some off field stuff.

115

:

They're definitely the sleeping giant.

116

:

You know exactly what I'm talking about.

117

:

I'm sure we could go on about that

for hours, but I'm not gonna bring

118

:

up any previous trauma there.

119

:

Now John, you've touched on something

that's interesting because the 49ers With

120

:

what they're doing at Leeds, what they

could potentially do with Rangers, they

121

:

could have a family of football clubs.

122

:

that's on the rise in football nowadays.

123

:

Because the City Football Group,

they're the most famous ones.

124

:

subject to penalties.

125

:

I think there are 115 penalties

that Man City has to answer to.

126

:

Overall, they have a number

of clubs around the world,

127

:

almost on every continent.

128

:

You have the Red Bull.

129

:

They have clubs, again, in different

leagues, different continents,

130

:

their footprints, around the world.

131

:

One, group that is underrated,

hasn't been talked about enough,

132

:

is the Right to Dream Academy.

133

:

So, got clubs in Denmark, in

Ghana, in Egypt, I believe.

134

:

And now, San Diego, in the MLS,

You did a deep dive analysis

135

:

into the Right to Dream Academy.

136

:

Tell us about that.

137

:

John Walker: Yeah, they're a fascinating

one, I came across 24 months ago

138

:

through journalist, Jordan Campbell,

and a Scottish coach, Fraser Robertson,

139

:

now, with Standard Liège, I think,

who had kind of worked in that

140

:

academy when it was kind of growing.

141

:

And Rangers were then, Glasgow Rangers

were then linked with buying a player

142

:

from Norseland, Mohamed Diamondi, who'd

come through that Right to Dream Academy.

143

:

He's Ivorian, he was picked up and

moved to Ghana when he was 12 to be

144

:

part of the Right to Dream Academy

145

:

PSP: just

146

:

John Walker: Ghana then to Norseland

147

:

Denmark, breaks into their academy.

148

:

PSP: part

149

:

John Walker: selling players

regularly for 15, 20 million.

150

:

Even players they sell for less tend to

go for massive money on their next move.

151

:

Mohamed Kudos and Damsgaard at

Brentford went from Sampdoria.

152

:

the recruitment model is

brilliant at the back end.

153

:

PSP: helpful.

154

:

John Walker: they're doing at

the front end is they have a very

155

:

clear philosophy from under 12s all

the way through to a first team.

156

:

And that doesn't change.

157

:

Same with women's football age

groups to their first team.

158

:

It's the same coaching philosophy.

159

:

same analysis protocols with all

the players on a one to one basis

160

:

and the players with a team basis.

161

:

It's all the games,

same coaching sessions.

162

:

same game model.

163

:

So realistically all they're doing is

realise that if you have that consistent

164

:

model the whole way through your

academy, male or female, from Ghana

165

:

to Denmark, you can then roll out a

team, as you're seeing, in the MLS in

166

:

USA, that follows the same model, and

having watched the pre season friendly

167

:

against New York Red Bulls, I could

have put Norseland strips on the players

168

:

and it would have looked the same.

169

:

The way they set up, the way they

press, the way they play, the way

170

:

they break out of teams, the way

they attack in the front three.

171

:

It's the exact same team.

172

:

they'll leverage recruitment if young

players that maybe can't quite physically

173

:

cope with danish football yet they

might move them to the mls for a season

174

:

that might benefit them and get them

back it's it seems to me if you do it

175

:

right it's a very very clever model

same way that union san joel are being

176

:

used for brighton to kind of develop

i think mitoma was probably the best

177

:

example of that he spent a season on

loan there After signing for Brighton,

178

:

and he's now one of the most dangerous

swingers in the Premier League, so

179

:

PSP: Right.

180

:

John Walker: you would kinda expand on

what works good once you've got it in

181

:

a position that can be scaled up And

Norseland, from everything I see, is that

182

:

They've done a YouTube video, which I

think is where we discovered each other

183

:

PSP: Yeah.

184

:

John Walker: through all age groups

How they implement that to the first

185

:

team, develop first team players

and continue to grow those players,

186

:

because it's It's pretty remarkable

when you see the consistency in

187

:

which they are selling players for

10 15 million almost every season.

188

:

it's not like they're just creating

one position, although the wide

189

:

area positions are the ones that are

bringing in the most money attackers

190

:

go for the biggest fees because

that's the ones that everyone wants.

191

:

just smart.

192

:

A lot is leveraged

193

:

PSP: how

194

:

John Walker: attacking football, which

recruitment is 99 percent data now.

195

:

PSP: ahead

196

:

John Walker: unlikely to find a

footballer just off the naked eye,

197

:

although it will still happen.

198

:

There'll still be players that come

through that don't hit data markers, but

199

:

you can see there's something in there.

200

:

PSP: excited

201

:

John Walker: the first part is appearing

on data scout reports, and if you've

202

:

got wingers getting 10 assists every

season, from 17 years old to 20,

203

:

it's going to raise some eyebrows and

people are going to be interested.

204

:

And if you can do that consistently,

you become a trusted buyer.

205

:

If people are looking for a player,

they will go look at Norrish

206

:

Land first and see what's there.

207

:

So everything that they're

doing, I don't see.

208

:

A negative for me in the fact they've

managed to keep it so consistent

209

:

PSP: Comparing City and Red Bull built

on significant capital, whether it

210

:

was corporate capital with Red Bull,

or state capital when you look at the

211

:

Abu Dhabi on the City group of clubs.

212

:

But it seems like Right to Dream

has come from opposite end.

213

:

It's more about, it's more

player based, it seems less about

214

:

Pumping money in and more about

generating from the play of sales.

215

:

John Walker: Yeah, that's exactly it.

216

:

once you've got it working,

it becomes easy to run.

217

:

they had to set up the

academy points in Africa.

218

:

So they had to get the scouts in place.

219

:

get the coaches willing to

work scout and live in Africa.

220

:

Once they get that and make a reputation

for themselves and those players

221

:

start going to Europe those academies

are then becoming like a homing

222

:

beacon for players around Africa who

if they hear it right to dream are

223

:

interested They're going to go there.

224

:

They know there's a likeliness if they

do well there They're going to go to

225

:

Norseland or now you've got the NLS

link There is pathways to go to first

226

:

team clubs in good environments where

they can constantly see You a pathway

227

:

to Premier League football, and that's,

once that's becoming, you're getting

228

:

just income coming in every year, you've

got a blanket over Africa, to say,

229

:

we're the leading developer of youth

talent from Africa, if you want your

230

:

kid to be successful, he needs to come

to Ghana, or one of our hubs in Africa,

231

:

PSP: sort

232

:

John Walker: working for them.

233

:

Are starting to be so consistently in

the top four in the Danish league helps.

234

:

The fact that they're going to

make the playoffs and probably

235

:

PSP: know,

236

:

John Walker: imagine, if they

keep up the way they're playing.

237

:

I've been impressed by how they started.

238

:

That then becomes a club that you

would want to go to in the MLS.

239

:

it just kind of snowballs from

there with, with very little.

240

:

There'll never be a team that go

and start signing people for 10, 15

241

:

million because they don't need to.

242

:

15 million pound players.

243

:

continually coming through a

conveyor belt in their academy.

244

:

And I just don't see how that stops.

245

:

The only way that stops if everyone

involved was to get a blank

246

:

check from a Manchester United

to run Man United the same way.

247

:

But I even think when listening to and

talking to people from within it, I think

248

:

their infrastructure is just so sound.

249

:

PSP: some

250

:

John Walker: You could lose 10, 15

staff and as long as the blueprint

251

:

is there, it's going to be there,

which I think is really impressive.

252

:

PSP: less common.

253

:

John Walker: to me more clubs at

254

:

PSP: don't

255

:

John Walker: higher level aren't doing.

256

:

We're consistently seeing

257

:

PSP: but

258

:

John Walker: how much

money Man United are losing

259

:

PSP: can just

260

:

John Walker: hundreds

of millions every year.

261

:

PSP: don't

262

:

John Walker: you would assume Man

United would have the best academy.

263

:

people linked to Man United went to

the Right to Dream Academy and have

264

:

set up this kind of feeder club.

265

:

Yeah.

266

:

That's working in a way that Man United

have just paid 37 million for Dorgoo.

267

:

They left link back.

268

:

Who was that in Norseland four years ago?

269

:

So it's quite, it's quite remarkable

and I just All they can do now in

270

:

Norseland is continually scale up.

271

:

But they don't strike me as

people that will have a bite

272

:

off more than they can chew.

273

:

the San Diego MLS branch

is a very clever one.

274

:

I think you could see something in

the A League potentially, or Asia.

275

:

That could happen down the line, but

yeah, it's very clever the way they've

276

:

done it, it's your bamboo shooting up,

you've not really seen much of the ground

277

:

work, and then all of a sudden you're

like, oh my god, where's this example

278

:

of almost perfect corporate structure

279

:

PSP: There's always something bubbling

under the surface Now, you've piqued

280

:

my interest with a couple of things.

281

:

I was born and raised in Australia,

so have an intimate knowledge of

282

:

the A League and the trials and

tribulations they've gone through,

283

:

particularly when it comes to ownership.

284

:

We'll get to that in a moment.

285

:

I just want to get a quick

thoughts on San Diego.

286

:

It's a youthful setup.

287

:

They're going into one of the

biggest leagues in the world.

288

:

There's going to be some groin pains,

but can we see this club, contending

289

:

in the next Boothway seasons?

290

:

John Walker: I think the way they've

signed, bringing players in that suit

291

:

the system, I know they've brought a

couple of players that have actually

292

:

played for Knowledge Land and actually

played for the company already, so that

293

:

helps with bedding and the process.

294

:

I think they'll challenge this year.

295

:

I don't see a scenario in the, the

results that I've seen pre season,

296

:

especially the last one against New

York, and then they're picking up seven

297

:

points and they're opening three games

and the two wins that they've had.

298

:

I just don't see it.

299

:

I see the first game, they had 69 percent

possession, which I was like, that's

300

:

exactly what we're seeing with Norseland.

301

:

It's absolute dominance of the ball.

302

:

It's attacking football.

303

:

Yes, they'll come up against

loading, and the amount of games

304

:

that we're going to have to play.

305

:

But I think there'll be

a team that regularly.

306

:

quickly in the playoffs and then once

you're in the playoffs it is your lottery

307

:

to see how who you've kept fit for that

point in the season, how you get on I

308

:

really like the recruitment they've done.

309

:

this year was about embedding in the

process with experienced heads which is

310

:

why the age of the squad is a bit higher

311

:

PSP: promising signs

the MLS season is, long.

312

:

Although one advantage San Diego has

is they don't have any competitions.

313

:

They're not making long trips to,

Costa Rica They're well positioned.

314

:

The A League is positioning itself

as a league of renown in Asia.

315

:

You touched on the fact that

the Right to Dream Academy

316

:

could have a footprint there.

317

:

What's your take on the A League,

particularly when the Socceroos

318

:

have been poaching Scottish players?

319

:

John Walker: I am a,

massive fan of the A League.

320

:

It used to run a betting podcast

about four or five seasons ago and

321

:

that became a staple for Saturday and

Sunday morning kick offs in the UK.

322

:

We used to love the over 2.

323

:

5 market because I could

not believe the culture.

324

:

now in Scotland having seen Ange

Postacoglu appear at Celtic.

325

:

I now understand a little bit more

as to what the Australian culture and

326

:

Australian style of football It's very

aggressive, very attacking, and sometimes

327

:

not as technically gifted as it could be.

328

:

Some of the pitches could be better.

329

:

But I do like the fact that

it does seem full throttle

330

:

and everyone's out for goals.

331

:

Really, really impressive.

332

:

I've obviously kept a wee eye,

when Jack Hendry went over.

333

:

Unfortunately, he got injured in his

first game, which was detrimental.

334

:

Ziggy Gordon went over and was

with Central Coast Mariners.

335

:

I really enjoyed watching them.

336

:

I thought that was the first real

insight I had to Australian football.

337

:

I really like it.

338

:

I think there will be a struggle for A

lot of Australian footballers to go into

339

:

the UK, I know his, is it Marco Tillio?

340

:

I know Celtic signed a player and they

just couldn't quite get his physique to

341

:

where they thought it needed to be to

play in Scotland, every time I watched

342

:

him I had a bit of fear because I thought

Celtic had signed an absolute world

343

:

beater, this seems like the first player

that I've watched, that's came through.

344

:

And being young he could come

to the UK and be comfortable But

345

:

maybe you're missing the nuance of

how physical British football is.

346

:

And that kind of gap appears there.

347

:

But as a league, it's, it's a

very enjoyable thing to switch on.

348

:

I'm, I'm, I'm very often on a Friday

morning starting my working day with

349

:

the A League game on BT Sport or TNT

350

:

PSP: is on the rise.

351

:

The coaching talent has

also increased and improved.

352

:

Poskoglu is the headline.

353

:

You've got Tony Popovich, Harry Kuhl,

former soccerers making their names.

354

:

The Matildas women's side,

they've been going strong.

355

:

They've had a good Cup last time out.

356

:

They are rebuilding but doing well.

357

:

John, I wanted to get one last thought

because the Men's World Cup next

358

:

year is in the US, Mexico and Canada.

359

:

and the US always get the, the attention.

360

:

What have you seen with the Canadian

361

:

John Walker: Next slide,

362

:

PSP: Jesse Martian, the way

he's been running things?

363

:

John Walker: I've missed quite a lot

of Canada's recent stuff, I probably

364

:

kept more of an eye on Canada when

Scott Arfield was more prevalent.

365

:

it was kind of funny, I was watching

the opening weekend of MLS, I keep an

366

:

eye on Vancouver because of Ryan Gauld.

367

:

I had completely forgot.

368

:

And he was somebody I tweeted

about five years ago when he

369

:

made his debut for Toronto.

370

:

I'd completely forgot about Jaden Nelson.

371

:

I watched him in the opening

game in the LIS and the fact

372

:

he's only 22 is astounding.

373

:

But that makes sense.

374

:

'cause he was 15, 16

when he made his debut.

375

:

He's someone that, for me, if he

can put an MLS season, I'd be really

376

:

excited to see him with David.

377

:

Alfonso Davis, I'm caught in two minds.

378

:

I'm happy Ryan Gould chose Scotland,

but I know there was little rumours

379

:

around him, potentially, seeking

some sort of citizenship to beat the

380

:

World Cup, but Canada are improving.

381

:

Canada will continue to improve.

382

:

I think I'll probably be able to watch

David in an hour against Dortmund.

383

:

There are players playing for big clubs.

384

:

Alphonso Davies went through last night.

385

:

So there are, I mean, there's players

playing for Kennedy National Team that

386

:

are playing at a higher level than

Scottish footballers are in Europe

387

:

now I think it's exciting for all

three home nations for the World Cup.

388

:

Canada will probably get

the right coach in place.

389

:

I think it's exciting.

390

:

I think there may still be

surprises coming through the next

391

:

international break there's a good core

392

:

PSP: And Daniel Jettison has

committed to Canada, the Bournemouth

393

:

player, and also promised David

planning his trade in Belgium.

394

:

Marsh has definitely been

using the charm offensive.

395

:

In the lead up to the World Cup,

so the squad continues to evolve.

396

:

One thing that continues to

evolve is your tactical analysis.

397

:

We can find you on Twitter,

at JohnWalkerUnderscore:

398

:

The most refreshing name in football.

399

:

I say that as, Johnnie Walker

bottles are being taken off the

400

:

shelves here in Canada because of

tariffs, but we won't get into that.

401

:

Where else can we find your work, John?

402

:

John Walker: on LinkedIn, John

Walker on LinkedIn, Facebook,

403

:

John Walker Football Analytics.

404

:

I've got a TikTok somewhere, but

to say it's used would be a lie.

405

:

I'm mainly on Twitter.

406

:

that's my main place.

407

:

PSP: When you can cut through the

chaff it's a much nicer place to be.

408

:

I'd definitely cosign that.

409

:

I've been your host, Nameless Bruce, and

this has been another episode of PSP.

All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Pro Sports Podcasters

About the Podcast

Pro Sports Podcasters
No Sport Left Behind
The Pro Sports Podcasters is hosted by Nii Wallace-Bruce, and Justen Williams. On this podcast there is no sport too big, or too small for us to cover. You'll learn something every episode!

#NoSportLeftBehind

Our guests include the top athletes in their sport, coaches, sports broadcasters, sports agents, league administrators, and dedicated fans. We cover every sport from every angle, and provide perspectives that other podcasts ignore. Each host has expert knowledge in a number of sports. So when the opportunity arises to educate our audience, we take every opportunity.

Our hosts Nii Wallace-Bruce, and Justen Williams have all spent time in front of the camera as well. Having appeared in commercials, dramatic roles, music videos, public events, and Live performances. The Pro Sports Podcasters are more than the voices you have come to recognize hearing twice a week.

Enjoy the podcast, and to connect with the Pro Sports Podcasters there are links in the show notes of every episode!
Support This Show